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Imagine peace, imagine anti-capitalism: Interview with Scottish MP Tommy
Sheridan
by Anna Battista
"No human being on the face of the earth, no government is going to take
from me my right to speak, my right to protest against wrong, my right to
do everything that is for the benefit of mankind. I am not here, then, as
the accused; I am here as the accuser of capitalism dripping with blood
from head to foot." John MacLean, Speech from the Dock, Edinburgh, May 9,
1918
"That was a brilliant line!" a young, skinny man enthusiastically exclaims,
patting his back. "You were great!" another adds, nodding and shaking his
hand, while a distant voice along the corridor of the Parliament office
building in Edinburgh can be heard echoing, "Aye, he was good…" Member of
the Scottish Parliament Tommy Sheridan smiles and says a shy thanks to all
the people who keep on stopping him along the corridors to congratulate
with him. Today will not only be remembered as the day of Tony Blair's
visit to Edinburgh, but also as the day of the Scottish Parliament debate
about war on Iraq. Actually today was also the day of Tommy Sheridan's
speech in the Parliament: the line "wake up and smell your oil" is still
hanging in the air when I meet Tommy in the Parliament offices.
"I think that more and more people are beginning to be angry about the fact that
Tony Blair is effectively turning the UK into the 51st state of America,"
Tommy tells me when we finally manage to find a quiet spot in the
Parliament canteen. "He has been labelled 'Bush's poodle' and, though in
many respects I don't like personal denigration, that is an accurate
description of him because everyone else in the world is saying they don't
support Bush's warmongering politics apart from Tony Blair who is hanging
on Bush's coat tails and wants to be the spokesperson for the USA. Nobody
in the USA elected Tony Blair and very few elected George Bush. You see, we
are talking about overthrowing tyrants and dictators, maybe we should begin
with presidents who were elected with a minority of the people as George
Bush was."
"As a member of the Parliament, I'm offended at Tony Blair using
this country as a puppet of the USA. I think we'll have to challenge that
because, undoubtedly, this whole conflict is about America's desire for the
control of Iraq's oil reserves, it's not about weapons of mass destruction.
If it was, then why aren't they making war on Pakistan or India? And if it
was a conflict against a country breaching a UN resolution, then why aren't
they invading Israel? The CIA has admitted that Al Qaeda is active in 60
countries of the world, but not in Iraq, so, if it was a war on terrorism,
why would they want to start it there?"
Tommy pauses, the lights of the canteen reflect on the black and white symbol of the peace he's wearing on his lapel and make it shine, then he continues, "Anti-war protests are very
useful because it is vital that those people who are against war, those who
believe in peace, display it. It is important for them to have an
opportunity to take it to the streets, it is important to have an
opportunity to say 'Not in my name', because the UK government is
unleashing hell on the people of Iraq saying that they are operating on
behalf of the people of this country and I don't think they are, so I think
the demonstrations aren't only useful, they are absolutely essential."
Italian philosopher Toni Negri and American writer Gore Vidal often refer
to the USA as the new "Empire", and Tommy doesn't seem to disagree with
them. "That's definitely a good definition for the USA," Tommy claims, "The
USA are a latter day Roman Empire spreading their influence through a
combination of bribery and blackmail. America wants to impose its will.
That's one reason why I support Cuba, because it's a wee country that for
42 years has withstood an illegal and very damaging blockade of medicines
and economic supplies, but Cuba is a country that puts people first rather
than profits," Tommy concludes.
"In a socialist Scotland, this culture of deference to the rich and
powerful will be dissolved. Just as capitalism set out to abolish 'the
divine right of kings', socialism will set out to abolish the divine right
of bankers, shareholders, and stockbrokers. The needs of society as a whole
will eventually be elevated above convention, tradition, and sentiment."
Tommy Sheridan and Alan McCombes, Imagine
Poet William Wordsworth believed children were somehow in touch with God,
because the memory of life before birth was stronger in them than in
adults. As a consequence, children could grasp the meaning of the universe
and enjoy a blessed existence, not yet corrupted by reason. Usually,
politicians or people who are involved in politics start their career with
the enthusiasm of kids; then, as time passes, they become the most cynical
human beings on earth. When Tommy Sheridan talks, you can see in his eyes a
special light, probably similar to the light Wordsworth claimed you could see
in children's eyes. In Tommy's case it is almost a childish belief in a
vision of a new socialist world. This belief is also what stands behind his
book Imagine: A Socialist Vision for the 21st Century (Rebel Inc., 2000), co-written with the Scottish Socialist Voice founding editor Alan McCombes.
One of the chapters is actually entitled "The Tartan Revolution", but, no
worries here, we're not talking about a coup d'état Tommy and the Scottish
Socialist Party are planning to carry out. "There is a rediscovery in
Scotland of national identity, people are realising that we may be small,
but we're still a country, and, though tiny, we're still significant in a
big world stage," Tommy explains. "We could be a beacon of social justice,
we could be a beacon of tolerance, we could hopefully be a beacon of
friendship for asylum seekers or for people fleeing persecution. In the
course of the book we tried to get people to think big: politics should be
more than just how high interest rates are and how high inflation is, it
should be about how to run your life. The 'tartan revolution' is trying to
encourage Scotland to take up the banner of an independent socialist
Scotland. We don't just support independency: we want an independent
country, but we want a country that puts people before profit, that raises
the standard and quality of life of all its citizens and we also want our
citizens to be citizens, which means that we don't want another monarchy."
Scotland might want its independency, but it is still part of the UK and,
consequently, of the EU, though a lot of British citizens oppose the
whole concept of Europe. "I think there is less of a European identity
across the UK as a whole than there is in Europe," Tommy admits, "We in the
UK, particularly as a legacy of Thatcher, Major and the Tories, were quite
an anti-European country. I have a vision of an independent socialist
Scotland where we're part of Europe, but not subsumed by Europe, a vision
in which we're part of Europe to the extent that we build friendship and
solidarity. But, in the end, I would want to be a lot more disobedient of
the European Union because it is a set up, it is clearly a vehicle for the
free market to spread across Europe. If we would enter into the spirit of
the European Union, then I don't think we would be able to carry a social
programme, because our social programme is to invest in things like steel
or shipbuilding, but to do that you have to subsidise, and under the rules
of the European Union you can't subsidise because that would be unfair
competition. So I have worries about the future of the European Union in
its current context."
Tommy might be suspicious about the European Union,
but he's well keen on giving a few advices to the Italian left wing
politicians who are at present trying to find a long lost unity to stand up
against Silvio Berlusconi's centre right wing government. "My appeal to the
Italian left would be to rationally consider what unites the majority of
the left," Tommy states, "my appeal would be to try and secure unity around
a majority programme and to adopt what I would call the 80/20 principle. If
there are 80% of policies and ideas on which the left can unite and agree
upon, then it will be possible to discuss the other 20% in the pub or the
café or the meeting room. We will never secure socialism if the left is not
united. How can we secure socialism by uniting the working class of any of
our countries for social change when we can't even unite the socialists? So
my appeal to the Italian left is to look up at the principal issues of
public ownership, democratic control, the ideal of opposition to the free
market, opposition to war, support for disarmament, and secure unity around
these issues."
In Tommy's words, the solution for the Italian left wing
coalition's problems seems to be easily found, in the same way as he seems
to have found an answer for those who keep on calling the Scottish
Socialist Party a "fringe party." "I think it is important to recognise
that every majority in society usually starts as a minority," Tommy
underlines, "When we're called a 'fringe party' it is because we only have
one MSP out of 129. It is a reasonable accusation in one sense, in the
sense that we only have one elected member, but we have only come up four
years of age so we are the youngest political party in Scotland and in
that short space of time we have managed to create quite an important
impact and a lot of support. I think that after the next elections we will
go from one MSP to four or more. We might even get as many as eight or
nine, but the truth is, we'd still be a fringe party, because there are 129
members in the Scottish Parliament. I would say that the definition 'fringe
party', although accurate, isn't really helpful and descriptive, because you
could argue that you could have three quarters of the seats and you would
still be fringe. However, I think after the next elections we will get a
bigger credibility. Labour lost a lot of votes, but they started from a
very very high plateau, so they lost a significant number of votes but not
enough to allow them to lose a significant number of seats. If you had a
wee graph and you looked at the Labour votes in 1992, then in 1997, 1999
and 2000, you would see that they are in constant decline. There are seats
in Glasgow that used to have a 12,000 or a 14,000 majority, they're now
down to a 5,000 majority. After the next elections I think they will be
down to maybe a 2,000 majority."
The next Scottish elections are a month away and Tommy has already got in
mind the SSP programme. "After the elections we want to introduce a series
of bills: as first thing we want to abolish the local tax system which is
very unfair and tends to tax the wealthy very little and pensioners and low
paid workers very much. We want to introduce our personal income based tax,
so that the more money you earn, the more you pay, the less money you earn,
the less you pay. Secondly, we want to introduce a free school meals bill
so that every child in Scotland who attends a public school qualifies for a
nutritionally healthy meal with milk and water and doesn't have to pay for
it or apply for a ticket to prove that they are poor enough to get a free
meal. Thirdly, we want a minimum wage introduced for the public sector as
we want to be able to say that everyone has a decent standard of living.
The lowest pay level is £7.32 per hour, currently the minimum wage in this
country is £4.20, but we can legislate to introduce a minimum wage that
would raise people out of poverty."
"For what regards drugs, if we had the
opportunity here in Scotland, we would assume all control over the drug
problem. We would immediately legalise cannabis as a step towards breaking
the link between heroin, cannabis and other more dangerous drugs, as a way
of removing the power of many of the criminal barons who control the
cannabis and drug supply. We don't think that cannabis is any more or less
harmful than alcohol or tobacco and we think that it is a joke that it
remains illegal. We wouldn't promote it, we wouldn't advertise it, but we
think it should be legal. We would also allow heroin addicts to be treated
inside the National Health Service with prescribed heroin in order to make
them manage their lives and try to get them off their habit, instead of
leaving them without any help or treatment."
Another issue that concerns Tommy is media regulation. "We don't have any responsibility for the media,
we don't regulate the media here in Scotland, we don't even have a Scottish
specific edition of news, the BBC news, the British Broadcasting
Corporation news, are run from London. We would like national news running
from Scotland, but we can't impose it because we don't control the media.
The Scottish Parliament might become a monitoring and regulating body for
the media in Scotland. As the Scottish Socialist Party we would also love to
make our paper, the Scottish Socialist Voice, a more relevant newspaper for
Scotland, we would love to make a daily newspaper for Scotland, but we are
constantly restrained in what we want to do by the resources. In a lot of
European countries there is state support from political parties, and some
states support political newspapers as well. We don't have any of that,
there is none of that state support, so we have very little resources and
we struggle to make ends meet, particularly with only one MP. So, although
we have big plans for a newspapers, it will really not be possible to
implement it until we get more resources."
Justice is also on the Scottish Socialist Party agenda and Tommy is
particularly worried about the miscarriages of justice in the UK. "I
suppose we have miscarriages of justice in our country because human beings
administer justice and this is one absolutely solid reason why the death
penalty should never be reintroduced," Tommy claims, shaking his head,
"There are human mistakes, human errors, there is a mixture of conspiracy
and cock-up, there are plenty of times when people are framed, there are
other times when there are simple mistakes. The Scottish criminal justice
system is not perfect, we're far from that, we must have more working class
sheriffs and judges and people who come from a different background rather
than just the wealthy. I think there are many aspects of the English
justice system that are even less safe than ours. Per head of the
population you would probably find that there are probably more
miscarriages of justice in England than in Scotland. I think the job
miscarriages of justice organisations such as MOJO do is good, but what
must be done is to improve the criminal justice system, though the Scottish
one is not probably the worst."
"Globalisation is essentially two simultaneous races. In one of these
races, the participants are the giant companies of the world. Their
performances are measured by the amount of profits they can pile up. The
ultimate goal of each of these companies is to achieve total global
domination in their spheres. The other races involve not corporations but
nation-states. But unlike a normal race, which aims to achieve the highest
standards possible, this race between nations is a race to achieve the
lowest standards possible … The nations that can achieve the harshest
working conditions, the lowest wages, the most ruthless forms of
exploitation, the longest hours, the most threadbare public services, the
most polluted environments, are the winners." Tommy Sheridan and Alan
McCombes, Imagine
From Seattle to Prague, from Toronto to Genoa, the movement against
globalisation has by now spread its tentacles pushing people from different
backgrounds, but with the same beliefs in anti-capitalist principles, to
get together and protest. A group of SSP members also went to Florence for
the European Forum that took place in November 2002. "As SSP we've
constantly and regularly been involved in the social forums and other
international events because the SSP has been looked up from a lot of left
wing parties across Europe," Tommy points out, "But our difficulty in
Scotland is that there are so many powers which are still reserved to
Westminster in relation to employment law, investments, pensions, benefits,
all of which are affected by globalisation. Globalisation is very much
about pursuing free market reform, a free market expansion in all walks of
life, it is about private provision and private ownership. Globalisation is
a sort of antithesis of what the SSP is all about. I'm anti-globalisation
and pro-world development, pro-improvement of people's standard of life,
but globalisation doesn't deliver that. Globalisation delivers maximum
profit at minimum cost, that's what globalisation is about."
In a speech
delivered in 1995, Tony Blair said that the war between classes was over,
but this doesn't seem to be true: during many anti-globalisation forums,
people manifested against class divisions. "Tony Blair is out of touch with
ordinary people's lives," Tommy argues, "Blair and his coterie of friends
do not associate themselves with the working classes anymore, if the class
war were over, then nobody would tell the employers in this country, who
continue to pursue a strategy of more and more work for less and less pay,
to try and restrict the working conditions. The current fire fighters'
dispute is probably the best example of the fact that the class war is far
from being over."
Since Tommy mentioned the fire fighters' strike in Great
Britain, other struggles come to mind: the Fiat workers striking in Termini
Imerese and in Rome or the "sans papier" manifesting for their rights in
France. "I hope that we can connect that type of struggle and that type of
dispute, because that's my type of European Union," Tommy claims. "What we
want is a people's union across Europe and that means that struggling in
Scotland against the multinationals should be linked with struggling in
Italy against the multinationals, that's the type of integration and
solidarity we have to build. In Scotland we have a federation which
organises all the trade unions, it is called the Scottish Trade Union
Congress and it organises roughly about 650,000-700,000 workers and they
are quite a progressive body, they are very very solid and anti-war, very
pro-Palestine and very anti-privatisation. We have a progressive trade
union federation that has not yet broken with New Labour, but the ties are
becoming very precarious, very slim."
"New leaders will emerge. And the men - of the receptive ears and the
outstretched hands - will need leaders who emerge from the ranks of people,
just as leaders have emerged in all revolutions." Fidel Castro, In Tribute
To Che
Tommy was ever present during the anti-war demonstrations that took place
last year and this year in Glasgow. During the protests it wasn't unusual
to see young people carrying banners portraying Che Guevara. Often young
people look for new political leaders or heroes. Tommy has got his own
heroes: "I think everybody has their own inspiration, sometimes it can be
your mother or your father or your uncle or brother and sister. Politically
speaking, I had several inspirations in my life: from Scottish political
history I got as inspiration John MacLean who inspired me to be
incorruptible. But I also have other historical figures who inspired me
such as Che Guevara, Lenin, Trotsky, Karl Marx. They were all heroes for me
in different ways, sometimes heroes for their ideas and ability to think
differently, Guevara for a combination of not only thinking differently,
but acting differently as well. He was incorruptible, believed in a new
world and was prepared to try and put his own life in line to fight for a
new world. That's why he's an inspirational hero for young people
throughout the world."
If Guevara is a legendary man for many people, Tommy
is often considered by the press a controversial figure. "I think it's more
of a media label than a reality", he states. "I see myself as a man who
speaks the truth. I lead quite an ordinary, probably very boring, life. I
speak to citizens in the train, or in the shops or in the streets. They
don't avoid speaking to me as if I am an untouchable. The reason why the
media see me as controversial is because I speak my mind, because I stand
up for things I believe in. But that's what politicians should do and
personally I think more politicians should have the courage of backing up
their convictions. The political establishment exists to try and use up
everybody and corrupt them either politically or financially, but I think
that if you have got strong beliefs, strong principles and you have an
ideology, then it is possible to resist. If you don't have strong beliefs,
ideology and ideals, you can easily become simply another one who has been
bought off and forgot why he came into politics. Most people who are
socialist usually come into politics because they want to change the world,
but the older they get the less of the world they want to change. I think
it's possible to still maintain your spirit and your principles, though it
can be difficult, no doubt about it. Somebody once told me and it always
stuck with me, 'If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for
anything'."
Tommy's final words call back to mind John MacLean's words in
his final speech. "I think John MacLean's speech in 1918, in this city, in
the Edinburgh High Court which is a stone's throw from here, is as relevant
today as it was then," Tommy nods, "If I was to stand as the accuser of
anything, I would stand as the accuser of capitalism 'dripping with blood
from head to toe' as John MacLean said then in reference to the fact that
we were involved in World War I which was about markets, about profits and
led to the carnage and loss of millions of lives. If I were asked to accuse
anything today in relation to the problems of racism or intolerance, I
would accuse the capitalist system, because capitalism breeds all these
things. Capitalism needs the classes to be divided and it needs intolerance
of race, of creed, of religion, it needs to breed contempt and division and
of course it needs to breed poverty in order to frame people and that's why
I'm a socialist, because I'm anti 'the market', I'm anti-capitalism and I
think that's the unity we have to build in the left, the new left must be
based on anti-capitalism." Tommy concludes and smiles.
His smile becomes
even broader when asked if appearing on Jasmine Minks' single "Daddy Dog"
released on ex-Creation supremo Alan McGee's Poptones was another way to
fight capitalism. "Well, I suppose you've got to communicate to people!" he
laughs, "Use any mode of communication, that's the truth of the matter!"
Subcomandante Marcos, the man behind the EZLN, supports a new concept of
revolution, a revolution made with words, ideas and hopes, a bloodless
revolution that requires only one thing, to act, to communicate with
whatever means you have and reach as many people as possible. Perhaps this
is what Tommy Sheridan is doing, bearing in mind that "we are into the next
war if capitalism lasts," as John MacLean pointed out in his speech.
Issue 13, April 2003 | next article
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